Wednesday, March 3, 2010

New question.....I'd like you to compare any two of the three males we have read and their approaches to women. Talk about motivation, feeling, intent while comparing or contrasting Apollo, Pygmalion or Pyramus. Remember to cite Latin as a basis for an answer.

16 comments:

Chrysanthe said...

Apollo versus Pygmalion

How it all began:
To start off with, Apollo gets himself into this unreciprocated love affair by belittling Cupid, who makes him fall in love with Daphne, a nymph struck by Cupid’s “love-banishing arrow”. Pygmalion on the other hand is so reverent towards Venus (who is, ironically, “wanton” Cupid’s mother) that he avoids women, thinking them immoral and disrespectful of the goddess. He ends of falling in love (without help from Cupid) with his own statue. Two unreciprocated loves, one caused by an angry god, the other, because of a reverent human.
Dogs and Worshippers:
"Ut canis in vacuo leporem cum Gallicus arvo vidit..." just about sums it up. Apollo is so infatuated with Daphne that it makes him kind of scary. He chases her like a beast trying to devour its prey, not like a caring, smitten lover. Here is another significant difference between the men: Both have seemingly inaccessible love interests, but Apollo still tries to claim a sworn virgin, while Pygmalion prays humbly “si, di, dare cuncta potestis sit coniunx opto… similes mea…eburnae”: might he have a girl like his darling statue because obviously, he can’t marry ivory.
All in all…
Apollo’s passion is mad and dangerous, while Pygmalion experiences a sad, seemingly hopeless adoration.
The interesting feature both men share, however, is that, initially, they both scorn love. Pygmalion avoids and separates himself from all women; Apollo mocks Cupid but, in fact, had never been in love before discovering Daphne. However, where Apollo’s arrogance and lust causes the nymph to have herself turned into a tree, Pygmalion’s pious affection wins him his statue-turned-woman’s adoration.

Caroline David said...

I found Pyramus and Pygmalion to have some similar qualities while still being characterized by unique traits. Both had no existing love interest until lack of one sparked them to discover his own, where in Pyramus's case his love was forbidden and in Pygmalion's case there was no women pure enough for his tastes.

Due to being single men, Pygmalion and Pyramus had very few lady skills. In his blind love for Thisbe, Pyramus scheduled a first meeting during the dead of night in a graveyard. To make matters worse, Pyramus was late, which not only reflects his poor time management but also forces the reader to question to what degree does he care for Thisbe. But is it apparent that his love for her motivates him to get off his bum, which is hard to make men do these days. Yet his intention is not lucid, as his plans seem to extend as far as meeting his lover in a dark graveyard.

Pygmalion on the other hand was disgusted by the poor values displayed by the local women and was so motivated to achieve a decent love that he sculpted himself a statue. Like Pyramus, who conversed with his love through a crack in a wall, Pygmalion's love life was unique to say the least. But to bring his love into a mortal world, Pygmalion involved the goddess of love, Venus. After praying he heads home to find his dream becoming a reality, as his statue slowly comes to life. Unlike Pyramus though, Pygmalion lives happily ever after with his love.

Bryn said...

Apollo v. Pygmalion. 
These two love sick boys have many similarities. Not only were they both written by Ovid, but both the men are just trying to find love, although they have strange ways of going about it. 
Apollo has beens shot by Cupids love arrow, and is chasing after Daphne (who has been shot by cupids "non love" arrow for loss of a better word) and does not return his love, nor anyone elses. As she is running from him, she pleas with her father again (she had begged for this once before) for perpetual virginity and he grants this prayer by turning her into a laurel tree.  
Pygmalion has sculpted a statue of a beautiful woman, more beautiful than any other in his village and he falls in love with her. He beggs the goddess Venus to turn his statue to life. She complies with his request and "temptatum mollescit ebur, positoque rigore subsidit ceditque" when the wax was touched, softness replaced the stiffness.
All either want is love. But in apollos case, his love becomes inannimante and for Pygmalion his inannimante love becomes real. Both are happy in the end, just apollo seems a little off, being in love with a tree "at quoniam coniunx mea non potes esse, arbor eris certe" if you are not able to be my wife, then you can be my tree."  

Gientsy said...

Apollo VS. Pyramus

I find that these too characters have some similarities, Apollo was chasing around his love who doesn't love him back and Pyramus has this forbidden love caused by his and Thisbe's parents so both couldn't really get their lovers. But their approach to the women are very different.
Apollo, if he had not been arrogant around Cupid, he wouldn't have been shot by his arrow causing the wild goose chase with Daphne who was shot with the love-banishing arrow. "me miserum! ne prona cadas indignave laedi
crura notent sentēs et sim tibi causa doloris!"- Apollo is so in love with Daphne that he doesn't want her to get scratches anywhere yet he still chases her through the rough terrain, and becomes a monster chasing a prey as he tried to say explain to Daphne. "sic agna lupum, sic cerva leonem, sic aquilam penna fugiunt trepidante columbae, hostēs quaeque suōs"
Pyramus and Thisbe on the other hand wasn't shot by Cupid's arrow, but their parents forbid them to see each other. Pyramus' approach was more gentle obviously than Apollo. In this case no chasing was involved because Thisbe loves Pyramus back. For a while both Thisbe and Pyramus were standing on the opposite ends of the wall and stare at each other through the small crack and appreciating each other. "‘invide’ dicebant ‘paries, quid amantibus obstas? quantum erat, ut sineres toto nos corpore iungi, aut, hoc si nimium est, vel ad oscula danda pateres?" They even talk to the wall on why it's blocking their love, he even imagines having their bodies touch together but then asks if it was too much and to just allow them to give kisses. "nec sumus ingrati: tibi nos debere fatemur,
quod datus est verbis ad amicas transitus auris." they show their appreciation for the small crack that lets them exchange friendly words.
Apollo and Pyramus had some sort of the same case that they could not be with their love but other than that everything else was much different in their approach.

Chris said...

Pygmalion and Apollo
Both of these men fall in love, they both kind of obsess over their love, however their stories are very different. First of all, Apollo's love isn't really real; if Apollo hadn't had pissed off Cupid with his arrogance he would have never fallen in love with Daphne. So it's not really true love, it's more just Cupid screwing with him. Apollo's love is more of a punishment for the things he said, treating Cupid like this inferior god ("quid tibi, lascive puer, cum fortibus armis? ista decent umeros gestamina nostros, qui dare certa ferae, dare vulnera possumus hosti"). Maybe Apollo does this because he's a god, unlike Pygmalion (another important difference), so he feels he can do anything.
Pygmalion on the other hand has this true love of his own for his statue; a little strange, but nevertheless True Love. No god caused his love nor is it some punishment. In fact, Pygmalion ends up being rewarded for his piety: Venus brings his statue to life. But Venus doesn't just do this because she's bored; she does this because Pygmalion is very devoted to the gods. He gives her an offering ("cum munere functus") and respect; he speaks of her as an all-mighty god ("'si, di, dare cuncta potestis, sit coniunx, opto, similis mea eburnae'").
Also, Bryn pointed this out already, but it's kind of funny that Apollo's living, breathing love becomes an inanimate tree while Pygmalion's inanimate statue becomes a living, breathing woman.

Kelsey said...

Pyramus V Apollo

Obviously, all three of these characters we were given, their stories revolve around love. Both Pyramus and Apollo do not get what they want at first, but manage to land themselves with a very twisted version of their desires. Pyramus wants Thisbe, and he wants to be with her and be able to do other things that don't require a wall in between them. In the end they both die, but they may be placed together in the same afterlife [quos hora novissima iunxit,
conponi tumulo non invideatis eodem]which is essentially what they wanted; to be together. Apollo wanted Daphne, and wanted her to stop running from him, at the end even though Daphne is a bit more tree-like than she used to be, Apollo still gets to be with her, and she stops running from him.

As others above me have mentioned, Apollo's love is not the most genuine, sparked by Cupid. Pyramus' love, as far as we know, is deep and true.

We don't know anything about Pyramus' previous love life before Thisbe (might have been nonexistent, going back once again to the age debate) but we do know that Pyramus and Thisbe were "inflamed both equally which they were not able to resist" [quod non potuere vetare,
ex aequo captis ardebant mentibus ambo.] as opposed to our friend Apollo, who has some difficulties in the lady department.

dolatin said...
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Whitney said...

Apollo and Pygmalion:

Although the two have many similarities when it comes to the act of courting women, those similarities seem to sprout difference. Both suffer from their own vanity and greed for wanting a suitable wife, but neither are willing to compromise any of their own self in order to attract a mate. Apollo's vanity is shown when he describes to Daphne all that he has to offer; Iuppiter est genitor; per me, quod eritque fuitque
estque, patet; per me concordant carmina nervis. He appears desperate in having to reassure his godliness as well as kind of full of himself by trying to establish himself as this powerful yet harmonic being. Greed comes into the mix when Apollo seems incapable of having a normal introduction with a girl he seeks. As Gientsy said he follows her like a hungry animal not giving in until he gets his desired prey. sic agna lupum, sic cerva leonem, sic aquilam penna fugiunt trepidante columbae, hostēs quaeque suōs." In the end his strategy doesn't seem to work out to well, maybe he should try a simple hello next time.
Following the epic failure of Apollo you have Pygmalion who is vain and greedy in a far different way. At the beginning of the poem one learns that the women that Pygmalion could have are far from desirer able, which thus leads him to a life a celibacy "Quas quia Pygmalion aevum per crimen agentis
viderat, offensus vitiis, quae plurima menti
femineae natura dedit, sine coniuge caelebs." Granted Pygmalion isn't granted with the best possible options when it comes to a mate. But seeing as how no one was good enough for him he had to create perfection through art even though it would seem the chance of him having that love was slim. However it does work out for him party through the effort he commits to making it so. He is greedy to gain the object of his affection even though that object is indeed just an object.
Both seem to show the same characteristics when it comes to matters of the heart, but what makes them different is Apollo has to suffer through the own inadequacy's of his life when it comes to love, and Pygmalion has to deal with that fact that although he gets what is desired in the end maybe his expectations were slightly high.

Kristin said...

Apollo’s motivations, to try and get Daphne come as a result of Cupid’s arrow that shot Apollo. He is not chasing her because he thinks she is beautiful, even though she is, but it is more because of Cupid. Pyramus, on the other hand, is deeply in love with Thisbe and he venture out in the middle of the night to meet her. Even though the two of them have never met face to face, they are both deeply in love with each other. Both of Apollo and Pyramus though have deep feelings of love for their respective maiden. Apollo doesn’t stop chasing Daphne for anything and Pyramus, when he thinks that Thisbe is dead, kills himself because he can’t live without her. Finally, both of their intentions are very similar. To simply state it, they both want to get their ladies. :)

Emily said...

Apollo and Pyramus:
Both hopeless romantics, just like Ovid. Both were deeply in love, never once questioning it. Both let love sieze their minds so that it became their life. Apollo devoted himself to chasing Daphne until she turned into a tree. Pyramus devoted his life to Thisbe until her fallen veil led to his unnecessary death.
Pyramus, however, was a lot better with women than Apollo. Ovid went so far as to compare Apollo to a dog chasing a rabbit, in lines 533-538. Apollo was not handling his love for- and courting of- Daphne very well. Pyramus on the other hand gave their love time to grow (tempore crevit amor, line 60). Pyramus and Thisbe agreed to meet at the tomb; he did not force her to go there. Where Apollo was pushy in his relationship to Daphne, Pyramus gave it the necessary amount of time.
The story of Apollo had more of a moral than did the tale of the two star-crossed lovers Pyramus and Thisbe. Apollo, after boasting about killing a snake (459-460), fell madly in love with Daphne when he was shot by one of Cupid's arrows. This myth warns against hubris, a common moral in mythology. I couldn't find any moral in Pyramus in Thisbe. It was more a tale of two lovers who by fate or bad luck, call it what you will, who ended their own lives tragically. It really only warned parents not to oppress their children so much. If they do, the consequences would potentially be fatal.

Robin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robin said...

Pygmalion and Pyramus:

I found many similarities between these two men. Both are hopelessly romantic, both will do anything to keep the woman they desire, and both seemed to have no interest in women until the one they desired lit their hormones on fire.

Pyramus is the more juvenile of the two. He loves without knowing what she looks like, or who Thisbe really is. He is blindly loving a girl he has never met. When he finally gets a chance to meet her, he arrives late, "serius egressus vesgtigia vidit in alto pulvere ceta ferae totaque expalluit ore pyramus", which consequently ends the story in tragedy similar to Romeo and Juliet. Any adult man knows not to arrive late on the first date, but regressing back to my earlier statement, Pyramus is a boy who is wildly following his hormones and not using good judgment to capture his Thisbe. Pyramus becomes so involved in his love for Thisbe that he was willing to abandon his family's orders and take his own life to be with her.

Pygmalion, on the other hand, has been around the block and seen many women, and none of them fancy him. By creating his own, we realize that A. He is a creepy weirdo and B. That he will stop at nothing to get what he desires. He gets so caught up in his love for his perfect statue that he now wishes it to be real. Of course, Venus grants him this. the description Ovid uses to describe the statue's transformation was genius. The reader starts to feel a little creepy themselves, in addition to feeling that excitement that Pygmalion must have felt. Ovid describes his rejoice and the statue feeling the kisses, "dum stupet et dubie gaudet fallique veretur rusus amans rursusque manu sua vota retractat", "dataque oscula virgo sensit et erbuit timidumque ad lumina lumen attolens pariter cum caelo vidit amantem". All of Pygmalion's hard work and perseverance paid off, and he gets the woman of his dreams.

Both have similar endings. Pyramus and Thisbe, although dead, die beautifully together and near each other. It is very morbidly romantic. Similarly, Pygmalion lives with his perfect statue woman and lives happily with her by his side forever. Both stories portray these men capturing eternal love.

Emilia said...

Both Apollo and Pygmalion had loves that were false in some way. Apollo's love was induced by Cupid as revenge, and Pygmalion's was for a figment of his creative imagination.
Apollo and Pygmalion are different in one striking way, and much else follows this- Apollo is a god and Pygmalion is not. Apollo is therefore not humble, not pious, and doesn't look to anyone else for help. In other words, he's a jerk. His very first line is "Quid tibi, lascive puer, cum fortibus armis?" What business do you have, naughty boy, with a warrior's weapons? He is totally arrogant, even to other gods. His love for Daphne is different than Pygmalion's. He falls in love with Daphne's beauty, but what does he really want from her? He is in a sort of blind love, and so he has no real expectations. It's more of an obsession, and from Apollo's personality we guess he has some sexual intentions and seeks her as an object. He tries to win her by touting himself, saying "Iuppiter est genitor; per me quod eritque and fuitque and estque patet", bragging about his abilities as an oracle.
Pygmalion on the other hand is pious, humble, perhaps even shy. He doesn't like the prostitutes of his town. Instead he makes his own woman- instead of blindly seeking love, he seeks one thing: a chaste, modest woman. (It's strange though that while Pygmalion wants a modest woman he takes his statue to the lecto with him every night...whereas Apollo only felt Daphne's heartbeat as a tree.) He constructs one from marble because supposedly none exist in the flesh, though we can also guess that he is just shy. He prays to Venus not for his statue to become a woman, but for a woman like his statue. Pygmalion is soft spoken, and subservient.

nik kilpel said...

In order to compare to characters, the two who are most alike would be Apollo and Pyramus. Two lovers who love women and unfortunately troubled in the end by their loss. When contrasting, pick either of these two to go against Pygmalion. In all of the stories in which we have read and translated, the most easily to relate to I believe is Pygmalion. A man struck with trouble of finding the right girl, and not wanting to tie the knot with prostitutes normally finds trouble later in life. Creating and caressing this statue of his may seem perverted and childish in many ways, but haven't we all done that to something in our lives? The two men Apollo and Pyramus are both love sick and committed horrible acts "in the name of love". I think everyone has happy when Pygmalions statue turned into a woman and enjoyed the fact that he could live the life he wanted to. As for the other two men, many find them discouraging, and sad to put it very lightly. Although all three of these men are doing what they did out of love, i believe that Pygmalion of the three is easiest to relate to, and his approach towards women is the most understandable.

ppiliF said...

Apollo and Pygmalion are the epitome of male sexuality. Once they are "enflamed" with a passion or desire, they cannot stop until their desire has been achieved. This same idea pertains to many men in our modern culture as well. Some, like Tiger Woods, will not stop until their desire is fulfilled (how ever large it may be. In our stories, our men are also enflamed with passion, whether or not it is by their own will or doing.
In the story of Apollo and Daphne, Apollo is struck by Cupid's arrow, and is set off by love to find and take Daphne as his own. However, Daphne is determined to stay a virgin, and flees from Apollo. As any normal man would do, Apollo starts naming off how good he is, and why she cannot flee from him. He starts out with the "dont you know who I am?" card, and tell her that "iuppiter est genitor," that Jupiter is his dad. As if that is not enough, he continues to brag, "inventum medicina meum est, opiferque per orbem dicor," saying that he is the inventor of medicine and brings aid to the world. However, his persuasion is to no avail, and daphne continues to run. Eventually, he gets what he wants, and gets a more eco-friendly version of Daphne.

Pygmalion, our other friend, is a similar character. Although he is not enflamed by an arrow, he nevertheless desires for a perfect girl. Because all the girls are sleezy, he makes for himself a statue. His statue is lifelike, and he falls in love with it. "miratur et haurit
pectore Pygmalion simulati corporis ignes,"He drinks in passionate fires for his heart for created art. He is drawn to his statue, and it eventually turns into a human, and he gets his lover.

Both of our men have a desire to obtain love, and do not stop until they have gotten it. If only all men showed perseverance in our world!

Adam said...

Apollo and Pygmalion

First of all, Apollo brings his fate upon himself. He insults Cupid while bragging about his great feats. “quid” que “tibi, lascive puer, cum fortibus armis?... qui modo pestifero tot iugera ventre prementem
stravimus innumeris tumidum Pythona sagittis." So, in return, Cupid shoots him with a love creating arrow and then shoots Daphne with a love repelling arrow.
He starts to chase after her because he is very attracted to her and she runs because she is repelled by him. In each one of the poems of Ovid that we have read, many people call upon the Gods for help. In this case, Daphne calls upon her father who is Peneus, to "change her shape." Peneus agrees and turns her into a tree. Apollo sees the tree and walks over to say, “at, quoniam coniunx mea non potes esse, arbor eris certe” (since you can't be my bride, at least you will certainly be my tree!) So, they live happily ever after.
In the story of Pygmalion, he does not want to get wrapped up in the life of a "garden tool" so he decides to make the perfect woman. He builds this perfect woman so that he can kiss and caress this model. At the festival of Venus,Pygmalion calls upon the Gods for help to he asks her if he can have his wife be made similar to ivory. Venus grants his wish, she becomes alive and then live happily ever after.
Apollo is persuasive and passionate while Pygmalion is very quiet and keeps to himself. When he is talking to Venus, he asks her timide if she can turn his statue into ivory.
In the end, they both get what they want in the most peculiar of ways.